Philosophical Questions for debate/discussion:
Question #1: Do people really want to hear the truth, or lies?
Question #2: Do people only wish to hear positive opinions?
This brings about the obvious question, do people really believe that life is roses, daisies, dandelions, and what the schools are teaching now?
The public school systems in the United States are teaching the following:
“Every person is a winner”
The schools give out awards to the team that loses in America, is this a good thing? For example, if there is a basketball tournament, even the losing team will get an award (often times).
Inspiration for this post:
Brandy’s comment: http://awomeninherthirties.com/2012/09/01/comment-of-the-week/comment-page-1/#comment-2034 (Brandy comment here on Eccentric)
Simply Sage’s Post: http://simplysage.org/2012/07/02/a-tale-of-agony-or-whatever-happened-to-success-thoughts-from-steve/ (Simply Sage’s wonderful post and opinions on the new “everyone is a winner” teachings in America)
phop247
/ September 2, 2012Well, me personally? I want to hear the truth! Yes, I said it, the TRUTH! As for everybody else, I am not so sure, and for some I severely have my doubts. People like to hear whatever fits into or compliments their metaphysics, to break it down to a short, succinct little phrase.
I would also disagree somewhat with the everyone is a winner teachings. I am 21 now and I grew up thinking the winner or winning team were the winners and that is about it. You strive to win, no one wants to lose, and in some cases or at certain levels or ages losing is simply not acceptable – i.e. my high school lacrosse experience.
Good questions though!
-Paul
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Glad to read a person of your age, truly wants to hear the truth, even if it may be a harsh and sad reality. Lacrosse is a wonderful winning and losing experience. Most people I meet at your age were taught the, “everyone wins” theory. I think some people wish to remain in the land of cupcakes, teddy bears, and rainbows.
Watched a commercial last night, the main idea was this phrase:
“You can do whatever you want to, and be whatever you wish, because everyone is a winner.”
Thought to myself (after watching commercial), ummm, first that’s complete bull, second, not everyone is a winner, and third why is America teaching children lies?
The commercial was an education commercial directed at children in the United States.
Then, the commercial brought about thoughts in Liz’s brain…the thoughts went like this:
Sometimes, I ask the hubby a question and he always tells the honest truth. There are times I get aggravated with his response, because no matter what, rather good or bad, he will tell me.
Liz has learned, “don’t ask the hubby a question, unless you truly want to know the answer.”
phop247
/ September 2, 2012I think to one degree or another most everyone does, or at least fantasizes about living in that kind of land. However, as my name states, I am a seeker of truth! Unfortunately truth can be very hard to come by in the society we live in these days.
Best,
-Paul
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Oh boy, the truth can bring a person to their knees at times or make the knees wobble, that’s for sure.
Your comment brings about yet another question:
Will the children of the United States who are taught the current ideas be ready for adulthood or the real world?
phop247
/ September 2, 2012Well for me, I am about to find out!
This leads me to ask, is it the schools’ duty to teach this? I mean, I think school definitely has its place, but there are also many life lessons I have learned outside of the classroom.
What is the purpose of the education system?
As of recently, it has been to prepare kids to mold into good, obedient workers!!!
Basically, what is the role of the school or education system? Or rather, what should it be?
-Paul
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Exactly, what are we, a bunch of bees following the colony? The answers to the questions bring about more questions….
phop247
/ September 2, 2012Indeed! Let’s hear some!!
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Sounds like we are supposed to follow along with the masses, but myself being 34, was never taught this philosophy on life or problems.
For example, if I were to be fired from a job, with this new philosophy…would I think, “Wow, I am a winner?”
The new thing they are teaching is beyond what I understand, when I was in school we were taught this: You are a winner or a loser, and that’s it, losers do not get the same trophies as winners.
So, I don’t know what to think, is this positive, negative or just stupid? I have yet to figure this train of thought out for myself.
I cannot say, as I have not grown up in this same era of technology or teachings that I hear the teens and kids talk about in the United States. The language is almost different.
For example, have literally seen children start crying non-stop on the baseball field because they pitched horribly.
I don’t understand this type of behavior, not at all, as my generation always taught:
“Be a good sportsman” and “Cheaters never win.”
So, I guess myself is stuck with the dilemma of not understanding the generations younger than myself, here in America.
phop247
/ September 2, 2012The problem seems to be that you are looking for an outer source for the answer to inner problems. Why do you need some one or some thing else to tell you what to think? I am not trying to accuse you of anything, this is just what comes to mind after reading your response.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Guess this whole new thinking seems almost alien to me, in my time, playing softball…I never have seen one of my fellow players cry so loud and so hard for not pitching well. I witnessed this at a kids softball game over the summer. The whole thing seemed so odd, when I was growing up, we never dared to cry on or off the field. Guess, just a generational difference..I don’t know.
Wrote the post to get feedback, to see if I am the only person who was raised this way, or thinks about things in this particular manner.
a beautiful mess
/ September 2, 2012I’m going to assume an antagonistic position here and make a bold assertion.
I believe that people become the words spoken over them. It isn’t a perfect science, but if you don’t see the connection I’m making, check this out:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TWAuc9GIvFo
Further, I’ll leave it at this: while no one can argue against the bitter realities of the real world, Margaret Mead had this to say…
“Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”
Maybe we should change our perception to allow room for the power in raising children to believe in themselves, and to believe in their ability to succeed at all they do. Maybe that very shift in perspectove would prepare rhe world for the upcoming generation, rather than preparing new generations for the world.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012@abeautifulmess – this is a very good opposing viewpoint to this discussion. We have yet to know if the new doctrine that is being taught will end up having negative or positive consequences for the future, we cannot predict the future. You could very well be right, maybe the new teachings are a positive thing, but it would be nice if it included a way for people to handle constructive critisism or the truth, and if it could teach people that things are not always easy, and sometimes there will be failure.
Seems the new doctrine teaches that there is no room for failure or mistakes, everyone will make a mistake – I don’t know if the future generations are prepared to learn from their mistakes with these new teachings. Like the above example from the softball game over the summer. I saw a child start crying hysterically because she failed at pitching the perfect game, it was crazy. She was having a meltdown, I assumed it was due to the schools new teaching “you can do whatever you want, and be whatever you wish, and you are always a winner” or maybe it was from too much pressure to be perfect from her parents. I did see many children cry during the softball games over the summer, when they would lose a game.
a beautiful mess
/ September 3, 2012That brings up another interesting problem with what Americans instill in their children: only the winner matters.
lizeccentric7
/ September 3, 2012True, I don’t think that’s a good idea either. I have seen that all over America, the kids feel like they cannot even have fun playing sports, when I was a child, sports were for fun, now it is common for parents to fight with the coach or other parents. I think, really? Over a children’s sport? Seems a bit silly to almost go to jail over a softball game for assault and battery of the coach or umpire. Now, if my child is mistreated by the coach, then that coach can surely expect a mouth full from me, but it’s only if the coach is disrespectful, never has to do with winning, losing or anything else.
Children deserve respect, people often forget that fact (not you) just see others disrespect children, and they deserve the same respect as any adult.
John
/ September 2, 2012I want the truth! And these damned public indoctrination centers should be closed until the infestation of liberalism can be exterminated from them, halting the damage these children suffer five days per week.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Wow – finally reached a touchy subject with John. I wonder, Are these ideas only being preached to children of the United States, or is this being taught all over the world?
penevethyst
/ September 2, 2012My friends and I call it “The Snowflake Effect”–society in the USA is going through a phase that started with kids born in the 1980s being told they are “like a unique snowflake”, “no one in the world is like you” blah blah blah. Sure, we’re all different but the mentality obviously breeds entitlement issues.
As for the question you posed: I want the truth but I most of the time I want it the way I give it–with respect.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012Makes perfect logical sense, the truth with respect, although as I have found, many people do not like the truth even if given with respect. Still, would love to hear some aspects from Europe, Russia, Cambodia, et all, as to if this is an issue across the globe.
Are other nations teaching these “you are the best ever” notions in the schools? If so, how will the child handle the truth when they grow to adulthood?
Wow, this a huge issue in the United States…my children bring home papers that they have to do, that say the following:
“You are a winner no matter what, and you can be anything you want to be.”
Sounds like an ad for the United States Army. Cannot figure out if this is a positive or negative message. This is a message I never had to study in school or received as a child growing up, so have no clue what to make of this new philosophy on life.
penevethyst
/ September 2, 2012In regards to whether it’s positive or negative I think the whole moderation thing should be considered. No, you will not always win and that doesn’t mean you’re a complete failure. The idea of all or nothing seems to last into adult years now. I think it’s started with one generation but it’s certainly not ending in our schools. I’ve worked in a number of call centers that reward you for doing your job–not going above and beyond, just meeting business standards. It’s rather bizarre.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012That’s a great example, a call center that rewards people for going to work and doing their job, we were taught that was called a paycheck, and rewards are for doing an extraordinary job – above average.
a beautiful mess
/ September 2, 2012While I agree completely, penevethyst, I would point out that there is a very distinct difference between self-confidence and entitlement.
Self confidence is creating through encouragement, positive reinforcement and love.
Entitlement is what develops when a child is given all of the above, but then is never held accountable for their own bad behavior. We must give children faith in themselves with equal measure to how we hold them responsible for their actions.
penevethyst
/ September 3, 2012I wholly agree with this.
lizeccentric7
/ September 3, 2012Likewise
KungFuGirl
/ September 2, 2012By putting everyone on an equal level – the losers getting trophies along with the winners – you reduce competitveness and create a herd mentality. A herd mentality is much easier to control than a group of random free thinkers.
Once you establish a herd mentality, you point to the ones that don’t follow the herd & get the herd to dislike them. Demonize them. They are bad simply because they don’t want to follow the herd.
I think it’s funny that our universities are praised as havens of free thinking, but public universities most definitely are not. If I hear one more anecdote about a professor who tried to atheize his class as a favor to them because “they didn’t know any better”, or another student whose work was rather exemplary but could never receive an “A” because of a difference of opinion with a professor I think I might vomit.
Personally, I would rather have truth with respect, as penevethyst said. Most people can’t handle the truth anymore.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012@Kungfugirl – The “herd” mentality, hmmmm that idea could be an entire post in and of itself. You could do a post on the “herd mentality Kungfugirl. I do remember professors trying to change my beliefs in college, and not giving me an “A” because we disagreed on an issue or politics.
The “herd” mentality – never thought about the way you described, brings many thoughts to this discussion.
mystudentstruggles
/ September 2, 2012I think some people will say they want to hear the truth, but will then tell you you’re wrong once you give it to them.
)
Me? I do like the truth – if it’s given respectfully, otherwise I won’t pay attention
It’s strange how a nation which generally represents competition will reward winners in schools, definitely gives an optimistic, unrealistic view of the real world.
At my brothers’ tennis club they give one prize for the winner and I think one for the runner up and then everyone else recieves a little something for taking part (ignoring the fact that taking part is compulsory). It’s meant to encourage the children to take part again and to continue working towards being the best but giving everyone a ‘reward’ means they view it as irrelevant. I don’t think they’d be bothered if they didn’t get one (except the little little ones, but they’re cute and you shouldn’t deny them a sense of achievement at that age
At school though there’s only one winner (and maybe a runner up). Perhaps it depends on age as to whether it’s right. Personally, I don’t remember ever being given the ‘winner’ message, we were always taught to fight for what we get and appreciate it, you can’t assume everything will work out in the end.
If everyone’s a ‘winner’ how do school explain deprivation – both at home and in 3rd world nations? What about to those who miss out on uni/college places? Common sense dictates not everyone can be a winner. Instead, schools should advocate the effort put into sport, academic work etc as sometimes the person who is sixth has tried harder than first. You see it all the time in schools, one person sails through with straight As and someone else works solidly for two years just to get Cs and a couple of Bs.
lizeccentric7
/ September 2, 2012@mystudentstruggles – Great points! Exactly, the teaching make zero sense in the United States.
Here is the thing though, perhaps these teachings are bringing about a society that cannot handle to hear any negative feedback or constructive critiscm, especially in the workforce – here in the United States.
Have no idea how long the message of “everyone wins” has been being preached in America, but it certainly shows in the current workforce.
@Readers – mystudentstruggles is from England.
The doctrine is not being taught in England, guess this is only a United States doctrine in the public school of America.
The US seems to be have generations now in the workforce that cannot handle feedback or constructive critiscm. Have you ever worked or went to school with someone like this? I have and they are VERY hard to work with, and hard to help. They already know everything, so it’s hard to help the person (from this doctrine taught in America).
The person who is taught “you win” from kindergarten has a hard time accepting any negative feedback, opinions or truth – here in the US.
Makes for a much more difficult work environment (in my opinion).
Time-traveler
/ September 3, 2012I, personally want the truth, even if it’s bad. This way I can change what needs to be changed. If someone sugarcoats something to me then I will keep on doing what I am doing, even if it’s wrong. I think a lot of people are scared to here the truth because they are scared of change.
lizeccentric7
/ September 3, 2012Simply put – and to the point. I agree, because how can a person change for the better if noone ever tells them the truth? You are right, I have found most people get very angry when they are told any type of constructive critisim, even if the feedback may help them in a huge way.